Transcript: Democratic Presidential Candidates Debate

WOODRUFF: Good evening and thank you for joining us. We are here in Arizona with all nine of the Democrats who want to be president of the United States. [Brief chuckle] The mother of the President of the United States has referred to them as "a sorry bunch"--but we'll let you, the live and television audiences, decide for yourselves whether or not that's true.

So we want tonight to introduce you to these gentlemen and lady again. We want to let them speak for themselves, which is why I'm talking so much, and will continue to do so, because let's face it, what really matters here is me. Also, we want to learn how the candidates differ from one another, if at all.

So let's introduce them. [Introductions proceed.]

You may applaud.

(APPLAUSE)

The format tonight, very simple. I'm going to be joined by two of my colleagues from CNN, our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield. And my colleague, Candy Crowley, our senior political correspondent. Please remember to focus your attention on us. Remember that we have appeared on television far, far more than any of these candidates.

(APPLAUSE)

Again, very simple, what we will do, is Jeff, Candy and I will take turns asking questions of the candidates. They'll attempt to evade those answers with pre-formulated campaign boilerplate. Then Jeff, Candy and I will interpret what they've said, so that you, the audience, can understand.

So, let's get started. The first question goes to Ambassador Carol Moseley Braun.

Ms. Ambassador, all of you on this stage have been very critical of President Bush in his conduct of the aftermath of the war, and frankly, it's gotten boring, we're sick of hearing those same tired criticisms. So please answer without making reference to President Bush's decision to go to war, his handling of the war, or his handling of the aftermath of the war.

My question is, what about going forward? We know that you and others want the allies involved. But that's not gonna happen. We know that you want the Iraqis themselves to be more involved. Ditto. Basically, your collective position is muddled, contradictory, incoherent, and apparently without any substance.

My question to you is, what would you do if you were president? Please remember to respond without criticizing the President's handling of the war. I'll shut up now for exactly one minute. The clock is ticking.

MOSELEY BRAUN: In the first instance, we don't as Americans cut and run, and we've blown the place up, blown up Iraq. We have a responsibility to build it back and leave it at least in as good shape as we found it.

WOODRUFF: All right. Stellar plan. General Clark, you're very familiar with the way the military works. Is that the right solution?

CLARK: I think she's given us a lot of great ideas. Let me tell you the problem with what we did there. We went into it without a strategy for success.

WOODRUFF: Red flag. RED FLAG. With all due respect, General, we've heard about the criticism of President Bush. What I am trying to determine here is what are the differences among the nine of you.

CLARK: Well, what I say we should do in Iraq is we should have a strategy for success. The administration doesn't have one.

WOODRUFF: Well, but, General -- and I'll ask some of the others of you to pick up on this, since the General obviously refuses to accept the premise of my question -- you make it sound very simple. We'll go to the U.N., they'll bring their -- whatever, all that stuff. Heard it before, doesn't work. So what's the answer, Congressman Gephardt?

GEPHARDT: The president is failing in his responsibility to get us the help that we need. It is four months since he landed on the aircraft carrier in his flight suit and said the war was over. We've almost lost 800 soldiers to injury since then. We've almost lost 100 soldiers who have been killed.

WOODRUFF: But I'm...

GEPHARDT: Give them the civil authority. You remember...

WOODRUFF: But my question is...

(APPLAUSE)

O.K., fine, applaud, whatever. But you're not listening to ME. This is SO frustrating. MY question is going forward...Jeff Greenfield has a question for Senator Edwards.

GREENFIELD: Senator, I have a feeling we're going to get back to Iraq, but I'd like to change the subject to more important issues, like the manner in which you are conducting your political campaign.

More than anybody else, you stress the modesty of your roots. Your dad was a mill worker. Your mom worked in the Post Office. You are the first in your family to go to college. Yada yada yada.

The two most revered members of your party, John Kennedy and Franklin D. Roosevelt, were rich as shit, and they were regarded a lot more favorably in your party than, say, Richard Nixon, who was born under modest circumstances.

The question is: Why should any voter care any bit -- why should it give you any more points with that voter because of who you are any more than a voter should resent you now because you're a multimillionaire? Let me change that: a multimillionaire TRIAL LAWYER. So let me put my question this way: wasn't your so-called "humble" upbringing just a way of scoring political points?

EDWARDS: The only relevance of your background and the way you grew up is the credibility it gives to your vision and your ideas for what need to be done with the country.

(APPLAUSE)

GREENFIELD: Well, "point scored," from the sound of it. But Senator, you didn't listen to my question. My question was: isn't there something rather "Nixonian" about your background? And if Democrats weren't such hypocrites, why wouldn't they support Richard Nixon instead of you?

EDWARDS: No, no. First of all, you've identified two great presidents who come from similar backgrounds...ah, hell, I don't know.

(APPLAUSE)

WOODRUFF: Well, let's hear from Senator Dean -- Senator Kerry and Governor Dean on this very quickly.

KERRY: Can I say that when I was serving in Vietnam on a small boat, the one thing I learned was nobody asked you where you came from...

(APPLAUSE)

WOODRUFF: Well, but then you protested the war, right, along with the hippies? O.K., Governor Dean, I believe you evaded the draft?

DEAN: The last poll I saw showed that there are five of us up here that are going to beat George Bush. So the question is not whether we're going to beat George Bush, but what kind of a president do you want.

WOODRUFF: A better question might be: don't we already have a president? Who says we need a new one? All right, I know a lot of you want to get in on this, but we want to give Candy Crowley a chance to have a question. Candy has a question now for Congressman Kucinich.

CROWLEY: Congressman Kucinich, I'm going to give you a chance to expose the contradictions inherent in your opinions.

If you were commander-in-chief, what criteria would you use to justify the use of force? Is anything worth fighting for? Should we all just "Let it be," as your beloved Beatles might say, and go off and smoke some pot?

KUCINICH: Well, as a matter of fact, it's a foundational principle of our country that we have an obligation to provide for the common defense. Unfortunately, in the case of Iraq, our involvement in Iraq was based on lies.

(APPLAUSE)

WOODRUFF: Well, I think her question was about the Beatles, not Iraq, but whatever, Senator Lieberman has been trying to get in here. Senator?

LIEBERMAN: Thank you, Judy. I must say that I've been very disappointed since Wes Clark came into this race, since it lessens my already nonexistent chances (if you'll pardon that paradox) of securing the nomination. [Grins, winks while raising and lowering eyebrows.]

WOODRUFF: All right, General Clark, looks like two of them are after you. Do I smell blood in the water? Won't these attacks present a stumbling block for your flash-in-the-pan campaign?

CLARK: Well, Judy, I would like to rebut this. I am not going to attack a fellow Democrat, because I think everybody on this stage shares the same goal.

WOODRUFF: You mean the goal of obtaining power by being willing to say anything?

CLARK: And that's the simple answer to it.

WOODRUFF: But you acknowledge...

CLARK: I think that's a very clear answer, Judy.

(APPLAUSE)

WOODRUFF: Thought so. Typical Democrat evasion here, folks. All right, the next question is for Governor Dean.

Governor, since you've become a candidate for president, you have changed your position on Medicare. You have a reputation as a straight shooter. So what do you say to those who say Howard Dean has misrepresented his views of eight years ago when he says he didn't change? Perhaps more importantly, what do you say to those who say that those who say Howard Dean has denied he has misrepresented his views of eight years ago when he says that those who say he didn't change are wrong, are right? If you're a straight shooter, how do you explain it?

DEAN: What the fuck??

WOODRUFF: Bullseye missed. And stop seeming like you're trying to hold the tip of your tongue gingerly between your front teeth. Reverend Sharpton?

SHARPTON: Let me say on three things I've been trying to get in, do this...

(LAUGHTER)

SHARPTON: Are you going to take that out of my time?

WOODRUFF: No, I'm not.

SHARPTON: Because you wouldn't let me talk.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

WOODRUFF: Go ahead.

SHARPTON: We need to deal with how we beat George Bush in 2004.

(APPLAUSE)

WOODRUFF: Why?

(APPLAUSE)

Well, never mind what I think, then. Next question for General Clark from Candy Crowley.

CROWLEY: General Clark, let me try and go at this one more time, until you get it right, to my satisfaction.

You said about five months into the Bush administration, this Bush administration, at a Republican Lincoln Day dinner, you praised the president and his cabinet. So if you could square that circle for us. In case you
missed my allusion, "squaring the circle" is impossible, theologians have tried and failed, that's dogma, meaning it is impossible for you to justify your actions, or even your presence on this stage, in any way that doesn't involve lies or Black Magic. So unless you want to explain how you're a wizard or some kind of neo-alchemist witch, I guess I've pretty much answered my own question. But please, continue.

CLARK: Well, I'll be happy to. Look, I want this country to be successful.

(APPLAUSE)

WOODRUFF: Senator Kerry?

KERRY: Well, I disagree with General Clark that this is an attack when Joe Lieberman raises an issue.

WOODRUFF: In other words, you now support the Lieberman campaign? General, you too?

CLARK: Well now, Judy, let's just be very clear on this. I did not vote for George W. Bush. I voted for Al Gore.

WOODRUFF: And Al Gore lost. So you supported a loser.

(LAUGHTER)

Time's up. Jeff Greenfield, a question for Reverend Sharpton.

GREENFIELD: Reverend Sharpton, you referred to the necessity of your party winning, and since we know that Democrats are less concerned with promoting effective policy than with winning power at any cost, let's focus on what really matters: poll numbers. According to one Democratic pollster, by huge majorities the average voter feels the Democratic Party is too liberal, doesn't share their values and most especially is beholden to special interests. Isn't that true?

SHARPTON: If you lay the facts out, there's no way, in my judgment, middle class people would keep those feelings that you just said that poll says.

WOODRUFF: We were talking polls, Reverend, not facts. Everyone knows "facts" are a matter of opinion, but poll numbers speak for themselves.

(APPLAUSE)

Senator Edwards, why not the rest of you drop out of the race and, you know, turn it over to Congressman Gephardt?

EDWARDS: Shit, Judy, I hadn't thought of that. That's a good point.

WOODRUFF: Thought so. All right. Jeff Greenfield, a question for Congressman Gephardt.

GREENFIELD: Congressman, I'd like to keep going on this track because it seems to me that you could almost hear voters out there, some of saying, "You guys just don't get it. You recite a litany of economic proposals, but it's on values that the middle class appears to have left the Democratic Party."

All right, 9/11 may be the reason you lost the Senate and the House, but it doesn't explain why for the first time in more than 50 years, there are more Republican state legislators than Democrats or why only 32 percent of American voters say they're Democrats.

That's the lowest level since before the New Deal.

So my question is, if we can cut to the chase, beyond the five- point plans, would you concede or acknowledge or not that there's something about what the Democrats have been saying or doing that has turned off voters who you think should be voting for your party?

GEPHARDT: Jeff, I don't see it as half-empty, I see it as half- full. I think we're doing really good. Now...

GREENFIELD: Well, the Senate and House are less than half...

GEPHARDT: In the last four elections for the House, we picked up seats.

(CROSSTALK)

GREENFIELD: Yeah, but not enough seats. I guess America just hates Democrats--probably because, now that I think of it, Democrats hate America. Governor Dean said not long ago: The reason we, the Democrats, are out of power is that we didn't stand up for what we believe in. Is he right?

GEPHARDT: Well, I don't know that I agree with that.

WOODRUFF: But just because you disagree doesn't mean it's not true. All right, I want to let Governor Dean jump in here and then Senator Lieberman.

DEAN: Let me first say that the folks that are running against me have had the greatest time -- first they said I was George McGovern and I couldn't win, and now they're saying I'm Newt Gingrich and I couldn't win.

(LAUGHTER)

WOODRUFF: So you're a combination McGovern/Gingrich-type candidate. Good enough. Senator Lieberman, do you agree with Governor Dean that Democrats have not been standing up for what they should?

LIEBERMAN: Oh, obviously not. I've certainly been standing up for what I believe is right for the country--like, you know, the war.

WOODRUFF: Is that what you're referring to, Governor Dean?

DEAN: No.

WOODRUFF: Then you must have failed to make yourself clear.

LIEBERMAN: I do want to respond. Integrity is on the ballot next November.

WOODRUFF: But Jeff Greenfield has already explained that the polls show you don't have any integrity. All right, the red light is on. We're going to move on. Senator Lieberman, you mentioned Hollywood. We've heard about Arnold Schwarzenegger, Republican, is going to be the next governor of the state of California. So in other words, the country hates Washington politicians. So doesn't that pretty much count you out?

LIEBERMAN: Well, first let me say that the lesson from the election in California I hope is that we're all not going to try to be like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

WOODRUFF: You mean, be like winners? O.K., Congressman Gephardt, you've been in Washington almost twice as long as Senator Lieberman. I.e., doesn't that make you twice as unelectable?

GEPHARDT: People are unhappy with George Bush and his lack of leadership for this country.

WOODRUFF: But he is a Republican.

GEPHARDT: Let me tell you something. I'm proud to be a Democrat.

(APPLAUSE)

WOODRUFF: Congressman, we know you're all Democrats (and we all know what THAT means). The question is: what is there to be proud of? Anything?

SHARPTON: To answer your question, I think that we have to go at those that have felt excluded and abandoned by the fight. That's why I've done a lot of young voter registrations. Plus, remember, Bush didn't win the vote.

WOODRUFF: No, I'm saying...

SHARPTON: He did not win.

WOODRUFF: My question is...

(APPLAUSE)

Oh, shut up, people! That's not my -- MY question was: Is Washington a liability? Yes or no. Senator, is it a liability?

KERRY: It depends what vision you're offering to the country.

WOODRUFF: I'll take that as a yes. Candy Crowley, question for Senator Kerry.

CROWLEY: Should you become president, if you get solid evidence that Iran is in fact developing nuclear weaponry, and you cannot get anything in the U.N. like what you would like, are you prepared to go after a factory in Iran on your own?

KERRY: I would do whatever is necessary to protect the national security of the United States of America, but, Candy, I don't accept the premise of your question completely.

(APPLAUSE)

WOODRUFF: So that's a no, you would allow Iran to launch a nuclear warhead at Washington. Congressman Kucinich, you are in complete agreement -- you're in complete agreement?

KUCINICH: Oh, no, I'm not in agreement with a number of the things that have been said.

WOODRUFF: No, I mean on this point.

KUCINICH: I would like to say that it would have been good if Senator Kerry and Congressman Gephardt, both have been articulate in criticizing the president, had actually--

WOODRUFF: Off point, off point...I'll assume you're in complete agreement. Again, folks, no differences among the candidates are evident. They are all Democrats.

DEAN: I believe if the president is serious about supporting our troops in Iraq that he has to say where he's going to get the money from, and that means he's got to get rid of $87 billion worth of the tax cuts that went to Ken Lay and his friends at Enron. Let me...

WOODRUFF: Could you make it brief? I'm bored.

DEAN: I'll try to make it as brief as I can.

WOODRUFF: Good enough. Senator Edwards, you voted with the president.

EDWARDS: Yes.

WOODRUFF: So why not just keep the same president, then?

EDWARDS: Hmm. Let me get back to you on that.

(APPLAUSE)

WOODRUFF: Very quickly, General Clark, and then we're...

CLARK: Judy, I think what people want is they want straight talk and they want leadership.

WOODRUFF: By the way, aren't you for gays in the military? And you're supposed to be a general...hmm, weird. O.K.--

GREENFIELD: Judy, that's the values thing I was discussing earlier...

WOODRUFF: Exactly. Well, Jeff and I will discuss that point further after the break, when we'll hear questions from this audience at the Orpheum Theatre in Phoenix. Live audience members will hand their written questions to Jeff, Candy and myself, who will screen the questions for content and then re-frame them in the kind of intelligent language that only senior political analysts like ourselves are capable of producing. Meanwhile, Candy has been having some difficulty breathing, and may have to receive a cortisone injection. Personally, I'm going back stage to see if the make-up people can't re-adhere some of this flesh that's begun to, I don't know, kind of slough off my face. Jeff will I believe be abusing a child in a wheelchair. O.K., we'll be back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

posted by Blicero : 10/25/2003 09:23:00 PM