Wednesday, January 14, 2009
One or Two
This comment thread was starting to get lost, so I am reposting. I re-post speakingcorpse and my responses in the comment thread.
speakingcorpse --
Your outrage at Israel's actions in Gaza (and in the occupied territories more generally) is understandable, but I'm not so clear on what would constitute the ideal (i.e. most ethical/fair/least harmful, and also realistic) solution to the larger Palestinian-Israeli conflict for you. (I'm not just talking about the immediate crisis in Gaza here.) Am I correct in understanding that you are not in favor of a 2-state solution? If so, what is an alternative which would not mean either or a form of apartheid for the Palestinians (even worse that that which exists currently) or the effective end of the state of Israel? Are you in favor of the end of Israel? If so, what would take it's place, and what would that mean for the Jewish citizens of Israel?
Also, do you not believe that Hamas bears any culpability for the current crisis? Do you see Hamas as a genuine people's movement with the true interests of the Palestinian people at stake? Can the rocket fire be explained in terms other than as a cynical, calculated means of further marginalizing remaining peace advocates within Isreal and provoking Isreal to strike back with excessive force so as to enhance Hamas' standing with its people and turn the international community against Israel? If we can all agree that Israel's response to the rocket fire is completely disproportional, what would be a reaosonable response?
I'm putting these questions out with all sincerity, in good faith. As an occasional reader of amcop, I'd really like to have a better understanding of where you stand on this.
Personally, I'm appalled at Israel's campaign in Gaza, and at the seemingly unanimous response, without any room for dissent or debate, within the US political class. Nevertheless, I'm also uneasy with some of the recent postings on amcop which present a picture in almost equally stark, black-and-white terms, albeit flipped. Should I understand the tone of you (and Scat and JHD) to at least partly reflect an exaggerated reaction to the lopsided coverage of and discourse around events in the Middle East? Or do you honestly see Israel as a criminal, "rogue" state, and believe that any arguments that it is motivated to such extreme (and ultimately self-destructive) actions by a real fear of its long-term survival to be entirely bogus?
-an amcop reader
speakingcorpse --
Your outrage at Israel's actions in Gaza (and in the occupied territories more generally) is understandable, but I'm not so clear on what would constitute the ideal (i.e. most ethical/fair/least harmful, and also realistic) solution to the larger Palestinian-Israeli conflict for you. (I'm not just talking about the immediate crisis in Gaza here.) Am I correct in understanding that you are not in favor of a 2-state solution? If so, what is an alternative which would not mean either or a form of apartheid for the Palestinians (even worse that that which exists currently) or the effective end of the state of Israel? Are you in favor of the end of Israel? If so, what would take it's place, and what would that mean for the Jewish citizens of Israel?
Also, do you not believe that Hamas bears any culpability for the current crisis? Do you see Hamas as a genuine people's movement with the true interests of the Palestinian people at stake? Can the rocket fire be explained in terms other than as a cynical, calculated means of further marginalizing remaining peace advocates within Isreal and provoking Isreal to strike back with excessive force so as to enhance Hamas' standing with its people and turn the international community against Israel? If we can all agree that Israel's response to the rocket fire is completely disproportional, what would be a reaosonable response?
I'm putting these questions out with all sincerity, in good faith. As an occasional reader of amcop, I'd really like to have a better understanding of where you stand on this.
Personally, I'm appalled at Israel's campaign in Gaza, and at the seemingly unanimous response, without any room for dissent or debate, within the US political class. Nevertheless, I'm also uneasy with some of the recent postings on amcop which present a picture in almost equally stark, black-and-white terms, albeit flipped. Should I understand the tone of you (and Scat and JHD) to at least partly reflect an exaggerated reaction to the lopsided coverage of and discourse around events in the Middle East? Or do you honestly see Israel as a criminal, "rogue" state, and believe that any arguments that it is motivated to such extreme (and ultimately self-destructive) actions by a real fear of its long-term survival to be entirely bogus?
-an amcop reader